Interview with William F. Herlihy [July 25, 2003]

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

This is an interview of William F. Herlihy performed in Oak Bluffs, MA on June 27, 2003, by his granddaughter Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman. So, can you please tell us what war you fought in?

William F. Herlihy:

I fought in World War II.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

Ok, and what service?

William F. Herlihy:

Military Intelligence.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

Ok, but which branch of the service?

William F. Herlihy:

the Army

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

What was your rank?

William F. Herlihy:

Captain.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

And where did you serve?

William F. Herlihy:

Washington, D.C. and the Southwest Pacific.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

So, were you drafted or did you enlist in the Army?

William F. Herlihy:

I was drafted.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK.

William F. Herlihy:

But, but I was interested in getting a commission in the Navy, but the Navy would not accept me because I had a piolinidal cyst. A piolinidal cyst is a cyst at the base of your spine and if it gets infected it presents real problems.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK, so you had to wait and then the Army took you.

William F. Herlihy:

Right.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK. And where were you living at the time?

William F. Herlihy:

Newton, MA.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK. Do you recall your first days in the service? William F. Herlihy of Massachusetts 1 10/16/1916 Army Captain

William F. Herlihy:

Yes.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

Can you tell me about them?

William F. Herlihy:

Well I was stationed at, when I went through the induction center at Fort Devens, I ah...

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

And Fort Devens is in Massachusetts?

William F. Herlihy:

It's in Ayer, MA. When I was s...., the thing I remember about that that particular type of service was the fact that they used to put towels on the people who were on their bunks if they were going to be getting KD, KC duty in the kitchen and it was always a game to move the towel before they got to you to somebody else so somebody else got stuck with it instead of you.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

[laugh]

William F. Herlihy:

That's something I remember.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK, so what did it feel like to be in the military all of a sudden? You went from civilian life to, what were you in civilian life?

William F. Herlihy:

I was a drug... I just got through with my Masters degree at Harvard.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

What did it feel like to be in a situation where you are being told what to do all the time?

William F. Herlihy:

It was very frustrating I found because everything was done by the numbers.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK, and tell me about your boot camp or your training experience .

William F. Herlihy:

I had this piolindal cyst and the Army sent me up to Westover Field to a hospital up there and I was in the hospital for about 2 months getting this thing healed. And then when I came out of the hospital, the captain in charge of our particular attachment said you are the only one qualified to go to OCS so I submitted your name. Anything after that?

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

You didn't go to boot camp?

William F. Herlihy:

I didn't go to boot camp.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK, so next we are moving on to segment three and we are moving on to experiences. All right? So, you served in WWII.

William F. Herlihy:

Yes.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

And where exactly did you go? William F. Herlihy of Massachusetts 2 10/16/1916 Army Captain [Interrupted by siren]

William F. Herlihy:

Top secret... Where did I serve?

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

Yes.

William F. Herlihy:

I served at a top secret interrogation center on Memorial Highway and it was Fort Hunt, on the way to Mt. Vernon.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

In Virginia.

William F. Herlihy:

In Virginia. After I left the States I served all over the Southwest Pacific from ....

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

You were in Australia....

William F. Herlihy:

Australia all the way up to Tokyo.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

Do you remember arriving at your first assignment and what was it like?

William F. Herlihy:

It was different. We were, no one knew we were supposed to be there doing what we were doing, so there was no like civilian life and I imagine there never would be.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

Ok, well what about your arrival to Fort Hunt?

William F. Herlihy:

When I went to Fort Hunt I was stationed up in Ethan Allen, VT and I received top secret orders at the office of the adjunct (?) general and I opened them in his presence. I was told to go to Fort Hunt. It didn't say where Fort Hunt was. So, people said "well why don't you go down to Alexandria, VA, it is in that area probably." So I went down and asked a taxi driver and he says "yes, I know just where that is but I'll just drop you out at the dirt road and you can walk in." So, I took his services and he dropped me off and I was walking up the dirt road when a soldier came out of the bushes with his bayonet and said "Halt." And I explained to him that I was assigned to Fort Hunt. He called the officer of the day and the officer of the day said, "boy those dumb blank blank." I should have reported to a room up at the Pentagon and that is where I reported the next day.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK. So what was your job your official job assignment? What was it?

William F. Herlihy:

It was as a lecturer on escape and evasion - that is prisoner escape. And it was primarily with Air Force personnel. All Marine, Navy and Army. I did that in the United States, also overseas. I served overseas under General McArthur. We were not able to do what in the Southwest Pacific what we did in Europe because of the nature of the opposition, the Japanese. If you tried to escape, they immediately shot you. So, it was different in the European theater.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

And ah, were you awarded any medals or citations?

William F. Herlihy:

I was awarded the Bronze Star for my activities. William F. Herlihy of Massachusetts 3 10/16/1916 Army Captain

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK. Did you have any part in any battle plans at all? You told me one time you may have seen some battle plans, did you ever... did you ever see any battle plans or help plan them?

William F. Herlihy:

When we were in Okinawa, I saw the battle plans for the invasion of Japan, which was supposed to take place in November of 1945.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

And can you give me some of your memorable experiences when you were in the Pacific?

William F. Herlihy:

We set up the original air sea rescue. It was a time when submarines were becoming more numerous and targets were getting fewer. They used to settle submarines at certain on the horizon coming back from a raid. And if a plane was badly injured, they could try and land close to this submarine and be picked up.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

And you landed in Japan after the Atomic Bomb was dropped. Can you tell me about that?

William F. Herlihy:

We were stationed at Okinawa at the time and they told us we'd go into Japan and look out for the safety of the prisoners both Army, Navy, Marine and civilian. On September 4,1945, we took off from Okinawa landed at Atsugi Airport, headquarters of the Japanese Air Force. And we processed the prisoners of war and got them out of Japan as soon as possible.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

What condition were the prisoners in?

William F. Herlihy:

Very emaciated.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

Were they all military personnel or did you see civilians as well?

William F. Herlihy:

We had everybody ... treated everybody the same.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

Any other experiences you want to recount? What about the time you saw General McArthur?

William F. Herlihy:

When we flew over to Brisbane, Australia, we had plane trouble all the way. We kept going from San Francisco to Hon, so instead of going on a C-54 from San Francisco to Brisbane, we were side tracked in Honolulu and we made the trip down by PBM, a Navy a Navy airplane that went 90 miles an hour. We stayed at Navy bases all the way down - Funafuti, New Caledonia and three or four others. And we landed in Brisbane, Australia we were down to the pay office and that day, it just so happened that General McArthur was present. I don't know why he was there, but we saw him.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

Ok. Anything else you want to talk about? Anything that you think would be important for other people to hear about in the future? William F. Herlihy of Massachusetts 4 10/16/1916 Army Captain

William F. Herlihy:

I'll explain to you, we saw war at its worst. And I'd hate to have anyone involved in a war. They'd lose their life, if not lose their life, or one of their limbs or their sight, which did happen.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK. So, while you were away how did you stay in touch with your family. Can you... Who was in your family? You were married and you had one son, right?

William F. Herlihy:

Right, he was born in April of '44.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

Ok, so how did you keep in touch with the family?

William F. Herlihy:

By V-Mail.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

What's V-mail?

William F. Herlihy:

Victory Mail, it was supposed..I think it was V-Mail.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

And what was the food like?

William F. Herlihy:

We had a concentration of what was available in the area. For example when we were in Australia, we had a lot of apricots of all things. And they used to have "refer" ships -refrigerated ships that brought over pork - we had pork chops by the dozen. Some people never had ... said they'd never eat pork again. Another group - we had a lot of SPAM. SPAM was not a popular food at the end of the war. Basically in Australia, it was a lot of fruits and vegetables.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

Ok, and did you feel any pressure or stress during your time in the military?

William F. Herlihy:

Not that I can think of.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

No pressure or stress?

William F. Herlihy:

No.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK. Was there something special you did for good luck?

William F. Herlihy:

That never entered my mind.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK.

William F. Herlihy:

I was there to serve my time and get out.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK. How did people, how did the your fellow troops and yourself how did you entertain yourselves? William F. Herlihy of Massachusetts 5 10/16/1916 Army Captain

William F. Herlihy:

Played a lot of contract bridge and that's about the only activity we did. We used to go to the show - movies - occasionally but if you went close to a large unit there were no more movies available.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK. And did any entertainers ever come to your posts anytime?

William F. Herlihy:

Not when you are a small outfit.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK, so you never got to see Bob Hope in action?

William F. Herlihy:

No, no.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

And what did you do when you were on leave?

William F. Herlihy:

I never went on leave. I accumulated leave time and I had three, we used to get a month off a year, so I had 3 years. Uh, three months of pay when I was terminated or when I was dismissed. Rakeman. Right, Ok, and ah where did you travel while you were in the service? What types of places?

William F. Herlihy:

I traveled, I traveled in the States. I went to Charlestown, South Carolina, I went to Topeka, Kansas, Grand Isle, Nebraska, and ... .some states, as well as going back to my main base in Virginia.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

Ah. Were you getting trained at all these bases?

William F. Herlihy:

No, we were giving lectures on escape and evasion.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

Oh, OK. How did you get trained to give these lectures? Who trained you?

William F. Herlihy:

Well, I had a background of, when I graduated from graduate school, training in the geography of the area. So, I didn't need any training, they were using me as a trainer.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

Oh. Ok. So what did you tell people? If your plane crashes and your functioning, you can walk, what do you do?

William F. Herlihy:

Well, we established the survival kit. We had pellets that could be put into dirty water that could make it potable, drinkable. And we were one of the first people to use miniaturization. By miniaturization I meant cutting down on the size of, of an object and making it more easily used in a stressful period. William F. Herlihy of Massachusetts 6 10/16/1916 Army Captain Flip Tape to Side B

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

This is side two of William F. Herlihy's interview.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

So you were telling us what you would tell people if they were, if they found themselves in situation where they might need to escape or evade capture.

William F. Herlihy:

That's right in the European theater particularly, that was true. But, in the Asiatic theater it that was not true. If you escaped capture, you were returned to duty. If you were captured, there was not much that we could do or that anybody could do.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

So in all these movies that we see today with people trying to escape, was that very unlikely that would happen - in real life? You know there's that movie "The Great Escape", where the British and the American POW's try to escape from Germany. That was very unlikely to happen?

William F. Herlihy:

Very much so. But we did have an escapee usually with us when we went out on these lecture tours. They spoke very briefly about their own experiences and the fact that they could escape from capture, particularly in the European Theater... due to friendly natives. Particularly in occupied countries.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

Did you ever have anyone that escaped from Japan?

William F. Herlihy:

Not to my knowledge. We never suggested that they try.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

Ok. Do you recall any particularly humorous or unusual event? Anything that sticks in your mind?

William F. Herlihy:

Well when we were, when we were moving up from the Philippines to Okinawa and to Japan, particularly in out of the Philippines, they were having so much black market activity that trucks were being absconded with, all kinds of material were being taken. The Colonel in charge of my particular outfit assigned me to go from Okinawa to the Philippines to make sure the material we were transporting made their destination.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK. What were some of the pranks that you or the others would pull? I'm sure you guys must have done some things to amuse yourselves like that.

William F. Herlihy:

They had a trick with bed sheets... that's about the only thing... after all, remember this is 50 years ago.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

60 years ago... Herlihy. 60 years ago.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK. You have some photographs, right? William F. Herlihy of Massachusetts 7 10/16/1916 Army Captain

William F. Herlihy:

They were photographs taken of potential targets; they were not documented at the time where they were or what they were. Rakeman. OK. And ah, what did you think of officers or fellow soldiers?

William F. Herlihy:

Well, we were all there together and we were trying to ... .this responsible and it was a unified effort. And I think we were successful.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK, did you get along with all your fellow officers?

William F. Herlihy:

Right.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

And did you keep a personal diary while you were away?

William F. Herlihy:

We were not allowed or suggested, particularly in Intelligence, because they always told us "the less you know, other than what you are trained to utilize, the better off you are". Because particularly the Japanese were ruthless in interrogation if they even suspected you as a source of information.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK. Moving on to Segment Five, After Service. Do you recall the day your service ended? Herlihy. Ah, in Washington or in Boston? I guess it was in Fort Devens. I started in Fort Devens and I ended in Fort Devens.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK, what did you do in the days and weeks following after you were out of the military? What did you do with yourself? Take a break?

William F. Herlihy:

Well, I an unfortunate situation in that everybody else was going on to graduate school or going to college. I had already been through college and through graduate school and I was married, had one child going on two. And, I felt I couldn't afford to spend the money to further my own education.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK. And did you make any close friendships while you were in the service?

William F. Herlihy:

Yes, but then unless you keep them fresh, they wither away.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK, did you continue any of them for a long period of time?

William F. Herlihy:

Five to ten years. But one of the problems was the fact that our outfit was so small, we only had probably 15 people in the whole section that I was in. Very diverse people. There was a movie actor, I forget his name. People who had special talent were recruited. The only reason I think they recruited me was that I fresh out of Harvard and they thought I could contribute something to the geography of the area.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

What was your degree from., what subject at Harvard? William F. Herlihy of Massachusetts 8 10/16/1916 Army Captain

William F. Herlihy:

History. Economic History.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

And did you join a veteran's organization after the war?

William F. Herlihy:

I didn't join. I stayed in the inactive reserve and because I had an intelligence IQ, when the Korean War came along, I was among the first people that were sent on to report to active duty. In addition, at that time when you passed the physical they told you what your assignment was going to be. And I found out I was going to be sent as a combat officer in a division. And I said "Oh my god, here I am with three kids and a sick wife being assigned to a combat division." So I inquired, looked around and there was an army regulation saying that any officer who called to active duty and it was not an active war, but they regarded the Korean Act.. War as a police action and they would allow you to resign your commission. So, I took advantage of that and I resigned my commission as a Captain, I guess I was a Major then. That was it.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

But later years you joined the American Legion.

William F. Herlihy:

I joined the Legion, right.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK. And what did you go on to do after the war? This is Segment Six.

William F. Herlihy:

I worked for different pharmaceutical companies, as a drug salesman, calling on doctors, veterinarians, nutritionists, you name it.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK. Did your military experience influence thinking about war or about the military in general? Herlihy. Read that again.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

Did your military experience influence thinking about war or about the military in general?

William F. Herlihy:

Well I think it made an influence on me in that I saw what it could do to a human being both physically and mentally.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

And what about the military? Did you have one vision of it before you entered and then a different feeling about it after you left?

William F. Herlihy:

Not basically.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

It was what you thought it was.

William F. Herlihy:

Right.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK. And ah, what kind of, your part of the American Legion, what kind of activities does your post do now? William F. Herlihy of Massachusetts 9 10/16/1916 Army Captain

William F. Herlihy:

We have a fairly large post here for the island that we live on. There are probably 300 in the Legion. They do a lot of charitable activities including scholarships to the needy, needy people. One thing I object to is that they only, you have to be related to an American Legion member to be considered for this scholarship.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

And do you ever attend any reunions?

William F. Herlihy:

I was in such a small outfit, we never had a reunion.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK. How did your service and your experiences affect your life?

William F. Herlihy:

Well, it affected my life in that I felt that it took 6 or 7 years out of my possible business experience and by the time I got out I was close to 30 years old. And, in those days you had to be on the ladder at a young age or else you were ignored.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK, and is there anything else you'd like to add that we have not covered in this interview?

William F. Herlihy:

Oh I think its been very complete.

Jennifer Herlihy Rakeman:

OK, well thank you very much for participating.

William F. Herlihy:

You are entirely welcome.