Questions: This interview is being conducted at the Washington County Courthouse in Salem, Indiana on January 24, 2002. Paul Lyles is the veteran. He is a veteran of World War II in the United States Army. He was drafted in 1944 and served until November 21, 1946. He was drafted at the age of 18. His date of birth is 7-10-26. The interview is being conducted by Angie Roman, a member of Senator Lugar's Indiana staff.

Paul, tell me about when you went in the service, when you were drafted, what you were doing in the civilian world and where did you go.

Answer: I was working at an apple orchard when I was drafted and went to Camp ____ Florida for basic training. It was the coldest winter I ever spent in my life.

Q. In Florida?

A. In Florida. The wind blew off the ocean. I mean decided to get off in the Atlantic and _____. It rained nearly every day. The sand was wet. We didn't put on enough clothes to stay warm. It was ______.

Q. You graduated from high school?

A. Yes.

Q. And then you went to work and were drafted?

A. Yes.

Q. Before you were drafted you tried to enlist?

A. Yes.

Q. Tell me what happened.

A. My friend, Theo, tried to enlist in the Air Force as a bomber pilot. And I took a test, and I passed the test with no problem. But they sent me a card that said I passed the physical and for what reason they never told me. Don't know.

Q. So you weren't selected to go into the Air Force, so you went to work and then later were drafted?

A. Yes.

Q. And you went to basic training as an infantryman?

A. Yes.

Q. How long were you there, do you remember?

A. 14 weeks. Well, I took pneumonia there. Training consisted of 14 weeks. While on the rifle range, I took pneumonia and got wet, laying on the wet sand and everything. So I had to sit back two weeks to another company that was rotating two weeks behind. So I took that rifle range over.

Q. And then where did you go after you left basic training?

A. I went to Ford Ord (sic), California for something over 30 days at the replacement detail. And I rode the train up there. It took five days to get there on a train. When I got there, I had trench mouth. So I spent 30 days there being treated, going to a dentist every day. Then from there I went to Fort Willis, Washington, stayed there and shipped out and sent -- stayed two or three days, shipped out and went to Hawaii. And we were in Schofield Barracks. We were there for two or three days and they ordered us to pack up and ship them out. And the trucks would come and load everybody that was out there with us, and we would be left there. And they sent us back to the barracks. And this happened every three days, two or three days for six weeks before they finally loaded us on the trucks and put us on the ship and sent us to Okinawa. When we got there, the first sergeant really got on us. He said, "Where in the hell have you boys been?" Our orders had went ahead of us to the seventh division for replacements. They didn't have -- Schofield Barracks. They didn't know what to do with us. They just kept us there and put us in the small barracks and finally orders caught up with us, I guess.

Q. How long were you on the ship to go overseas?

A. I can't remember for sure. It took several days to get to Hawaii and then you're under ____. It's a heavy loaded ship. Steamship. Didn't travel very fast. Seemed like 14 or 15 days. And then the ship going to Okinawa wasn't that far, wasn't that long. One experience we had, the fact the seas became calm. It looked like we were sailing on glass. There wasn't a wave broke. It was just beautiful. It just looked like real glass, ____. I don't know if there was a wake behind us.

What do you remember most about the ship ride on the way over?

A. Getting sick. I was made corporal of the guard, acting corporal. Put an arm band on me, an acting corporal. When we got in there, complete silence. I had to post guard. I had about 20 posts total. The time I got on the post, the ship was underway. And it arrived _____. Soon as we got to open sea, I was still posting guard. And I got sick, and I went to the rail and vomited. And I looked up the rail and down the rail, and I was the only one. I must have been the first one seasick. It was terrible. Everybody else had went and laid in their bunks. They didn't have to pull guard or anything. Keep them from getting seasick.

So what time again was it when you sailed out of Washington State to Hawaii?

A. It was summer or July.

Summer? So it was summer by the time --

When you went overseas from Hawaii, where did you land?

A. Okinawa.

You went to Okinawa?

A. Yeah.

Is that where you stayed primarily was in Okinawa?

A. We didn't stay too long. The war had ended, and there was just some diehard Japs on Okinawa, you know, some that wouldn't give up. One interesting incident that happened while we were there, we were in pup tents out in the fields there where the battles had been conducted. And there was a lot of tanks had been, American tanks had been there, _____. There's one behind us, and we had a movie for the night. And we looked back one night, somebody did, and there sat a Jap up on the tank watching the movie. They captured him. Of course, he come out of the base from somewhere, probably getting hungry. We captured him.

You were in Okinawa when the war ended?

A. Yeah. We was on the way when they dropped the bomb, was on the way to Okinawa.

How did the news travel to you that we had dropped the bomb?

A. Oh, ____ everybody was jubilus (sic), you know, jubilation. It was lifesaver for most of us. You know, glad -- glad killed the fighting Japs, but it saved a lot of lives. Saved many more lives than what we could.

Do you remember what you were doing when you heard about it?

A. No -- well, yes, I was asleep. I had a friend that bunked right by me, and he was on guard duty down at the mess hall. And they had a civilian radio down there. And he heard it. When he got off the guard duty, he came and woke me up and told me. Of course, somebody else heard, and it wasn't long before everybody was awake. There's no more sleep that night. It was dark, we were running on the blackout position. Jap submarines were still out in the ocean. Although they had't heard about it yet.

Right. So how long did you stay in Okinawa then after we ended the war?

A. It wasn't too long. I think about a month. Less than a month after the end of the war. Less than a month. And they sent us to Korea. And we were the first troops to go into occupied Korea. We went into Seoul, and we got on civilian trains, and there were also civilians on them, and they took us inland to Taejon. We stayed overnight that night in Taejon. There was a Japanese barracks there and it had a playground, and we pitched pup tents because the barracks were off limits. They had to be deloused and everything. So they told us we couldn't go in there. This playground was low, _____, wasn't any grass growing on it at all, just level dirt. And we pitched pup tents out there but there was no place to drain the water away from them. And it came and rained that night. I woke up, I was laying there in about an inch of water. I got up and grabbed my rifle and took off to the barracks. When I got there, it was half full. It was the same thing. Even though it was off limits, we stayed -- spent the rest of the night in the Japanese barracks. From there we went to Kaesong, Korea in a very few days. And then they took us north of the 38th parallel to a little town just north of _______. And I -- just our company, our -- was the only one there, company ____. And we were there almost isolated by ourselves. Once a week they brought supplies up to us. We stayed there a year. Our job when we first got there was to send the Japs back to Japan because they had occupied Korea for 40 years. They had their families over there. We actually stayed in a hotel, the Continental Springs Hotel. There were two of them there, one just south of us couple mile. It was Korean and this one was almost _____. It belonged to the Japs. So the treaty was that everything that was Japanese belonged to the Americans. We didn't have to worry about sending them back because most of them were on the trains as we came in. They had boarded trains and headed for Seoul. I guess they had been informed by news source or something, you know, they had to do that. So we set up a yard camp out on the road there on the 38th parallel. One of our big problems, keeping the rations out of there. They would come at night, go into the village, plunder, rape, steal. And their job also was to do the same thing that we were supposed to do, send all the Japs back to Japan. They didn't do that. They just took what they had, possessions that they had and kicked them out. They started coming south. They had heard about us, I guess. Long lines of them, much as four abreast right of the road, just as long as you could see. And we had to stop them, keep them from coming into the south, south of 38th. At night they just go around us. They would ____. Finally the general said, "Bring them on, take care of them." So we bring them on, delouse them. And they were in terrible shape, unhealthy, sick, sores, lousy, starving. Clothes worn off of them. So we sent them back to Japan ______. And we had a few incidents where communist North Korea came down, we had to take care of them.

But you didn't meet with a lot of opposition --

A. No.

-- from the Japanese --

A. No.

-- when you were at the 38th parallel?

A. No, they were very cooperative on our part. One incident we had there one night, some Korean came up to where we were housed and jabbering, jabbering. You know, the interpreter interpreted some _______ were raiding a village. So we had a lieutenant, second lieutenant that come from the states. The other guys coming through the battle, they were going back on the point system. And he got a couple Jeeps and had us to draw our rifles and ammunition, but we had -- most of us had it with us anyhow, ______ with you. I wasn't one of them. He loaded them in the Jeeps, went to this village where the ________ were raiding the village. And he stopped the Jeep and jumped out and opened fire on them. Luckily none of them was hit or killed. It almost -- I thought it was going to be World War III. It really stirred up a hornet's nest. But we were getting a beer ration. So much beer a month. Amounted to about a case, ________. And so we had a day room there in that -- fixed up in that hotel that really had been a bar. They took our beer ration and they invited these ration officers and the men that were fired upon and the chief of police in the village, and they threw them a party with our beer. This lieutenant, I heard he got court martialed. I never seen any more of him. I heard rumor that he was court martialed for it. We finally got that settled, I guess. They drank our beer rations.

That's a great thing to say about a war. Good party.

A. Yeah.

Were you married when you were overseas?

A. No.

So you didn't fall very high on the point system, did you?

A. No. Well, the points -- the way they went home on points was amount of time. Overseas counted double time. And a month in the states -- a month in overseas was equal to two months in the states. And most of the guys, replacements were going to Okinawa. Most of them had been through the battle of Okinawa plus all the other battles South Korea had.

So they had already been in country longer?

A. Yes, they had points, and they began to do what it took to get home. And that is for some reason I come out of PFC. Whenever someone would go home, officer, sergeant, PFC or anything -- I was an officer but noncommissioned officer. They would give the rating to the next guy, oldest guy. He wouldn't maybe be there a month, he'd go home. And then they'd give that to me. Kept that up for a while, finally, the _______ -- like they're inclined to do, they come down with orders, no more ratings for guys that's got so many points.

Stopped the promotions to save money?

A. Some of these guys from the states replacing each other from basic training and they had sergeants and corporals and PFCs, and we were -- been over there for two years almost. They got the ratings, we got nothing. Fellows thought that was a dirty trick pulled on us.

I've read about that. I haven't heard anybody bring that up, but I read about that before when they stopped the ratings, when they stopped the promotion.

A. They prorated the ratings for anyone with so many points.

Do you remember mail call when you were overseas, and how important was that to you?

A. That was very important. That was one of the most important things that could happen to you was mail call.

Did your family write?

A. Yes.

Who wrote to you the most?

A. My mother most.

Your mother wrote to you -- did you write home on a regular basis?

A. Yes, because I felt like needed to write one to get one. She would answer, you know, if I would write. She definitely would answered.

Do you still have your letters? Did she save any of them?

A. I think I got one letter that I wrote home. Sometime back. I haven't seen it for a while. I think it's still around there.

Do you remember how long it took usually if you send a letter to your mom or how late her mail was coming to you if she mailed it?

A. It was slow, very slow. Took a long time. I don't remember exactly.

Couple weeks?

A. Yes, or more.

When you got out of the service, when you were all done and you were leaving, what's the first thing that you did?

A. You mean when I was discharged?

When you were discharged. What's the first thing that you did?

A. Well, actually I was -- when I came back, we came to Fort Sheridan, Illinois. And there were so many of us to be processed, they told us, they said, "If you want to go home, you can go on home and come back later." So I went on home.

What did you do?

A. Well --

You went home as fast as you could.

A. There was four or five of us from Salem. We caught the train to Chicago and came into Seymour. And that train was going too slow for us, so we hired a taxi.

You came home as fast as you could.

A. As fast as we could. And I never will forget, there was a phone around here on the south side of the square. My folks had moved when I was in the service. I think they were trying to tell us.

No, they were trying to sneak off when you were gone.

A. I didn't know where they lived. So I had an uncle. And my Daddy and Mother lived out there near the fairgrounds. I went to the phone and called him. He said, "Where you at?" I told him. He said, "Be right there." He came and took me to my Dad's.

They didn't know you were coming home that day?

A. No, they didn't know.

What was their reaction when you came strolling up the driveway?

A. First time I ever saw my Daddy cry.

In a community like this, they would have. So then you got home, and you went back and got your discharge when everything was all wrapped up; right? What did you do following the service? Did you go to school? What did you do?

A. No, I went to Kokomo and worked there in a factory. Chrysler factory. And around this time _______ been around a while, run around, get that out of my system first. So then I went to a friend of mine. They moved up there, and he wanted me to stay with his parents, get a job at Chrysler Corporation. I did that for years.

Then what did you do?

A. My brother, I came home one weekend, and he said, "How would you like to go in partners with me on a milk route?" So he bought a milk truck, farm pick up and delivery. I ran that for about three or four years. And I got into farming and then I got married.

You farmed in the local community all of your life; for the most part, all of your life?

A. Yes.

And you and Madge --

A. I also worked factory work. I worked for 23 years down there at Goodrich and farmed too. And then I worked three years at Sudsbury (ph) and then I worked from '85 to -- how long was I the service officer?

From '85 to '92. Then from '94 to '98, I think. He'd been two times.

A. First replacement didn't work out, so they asked me to come back and service officer and help out. This was the first time. By that time, she was my secretary and I -- Becky and I trained her and made her learn what I knew. She did a good job. She learned what I knew and more.

And you and Madge have how many kids?

A. Got four.

And how many grand kids?

A. Seven. How many is that?

And two great.

And two great. Wow, that's great. Do you belong to any service organizations?

A. VFW, American Legion, DAV and AMVETS.

Lifetime members?

A. Lifetime member except AMVETS. I'm not a lifetime member of that.

And Masonic Lodge.

A. Yeah, Masonic Lodge. 50-year member of that; 51, 52 now.

What kind of events do you participate in with the service organizations?

A. Attend military funerals, I'm a member of the firing squad.

The Honor Guard?

A. Uh-huh.

Do you attend the Veteran's Day functions?

A. Yes, I do, meetings and chaplain and also service officer in the VFW.

Service officer is a good conduct for you. Do you have anything else you want to add about your service?

A. No, that pretty well covers it. I could sit and tell you all day some stories.

I think it's important to point out, though, that after you finished -- I mean, after you retired the first or second or third time, whenever you really did, you came here to be a service officer and continue serving veterans in the community. And that's really important. And then when you retired in '98 or '99 -- '99 because I was on staff. '99, you retired to continue farming. You haven't actually retired yet.

A. No, but I don't ever expect to completely retire unless my health just demands it.

Q. But you still get up every day and go to work?

A. Yeah, I enjoy it. I don't want to just sit. Sit all day. I wouldn't enjoy that.

Q. Do you think that your service impacted your life later on? Do you think that, since you were so young when you went overseas, it kind of formed you into the person that you are?

A. Yes, kind of influenced on my character, I'm sure. One thing that I regret, we had GI Bill of Rights. And you mentioned earlier, I spent a year with my aunt and uncle in Bloomington. I went there after high school. She was a teacher. And she told me, anytime that I wanted to go to IU, I could stay at their house and save _______. Wouldn't cost anything. I had every opportunity to get a college education. I had GI Bill. I had a place I could stay in. I just thought, well, I'll do it later, I'll do it later. And I just kept putting it off. And I never did do it. And I never really had anybody -- our parents just never said, I'll support you. I figured it would take some more money. Takes your money. They were a big family, didn't have the money.

Q. How many children were in your family?

A. 12.

Q. How many boys?

A. Seven.

Q. Seven boys, and six of the seven boys served between World War II and Korea or --

A. Viet Nam.

Q. In Vietnam. Did any of your sisters serve?

A. No.

Q. That's all the questions I have unless you have anything else that you want to add to the interview?

A. One of the things I'll never forget, that trip back home from the ship.

Q. Did you get sick?

A. I got sick. We come up around Japan and northern route, Aleutians Island route, they said Aleutians. They said we hit the tail end of a storm. Well, if that's the tail end, I'm glad I wasn't in the storm. The fantail of that big ship would just come completely out of the water, _______. In the open air, you know, it would speed up and just vibrate that whole ship. Then we got our little ship's paper, daily paper and even the captain was scared. A lot of the ships broke in two. It blew up pretty strong and just drop. I lost 15 pounds coming home, which I didn't have to lose because I wasn't _______.

Q. Could you swim?

A. Yes.

Q. Well, you had that going for you at least.

He won't go on a cruise because he don't like that.

A. I had two friends from Salem were with me on the ship. They weren't sick like I was and they were _______. What is it called on the ship where you got candy and Cokes?

Q. The canteen?

A. No, ______. Whatever it was. They finally bring you Coke and candy bars. I got to where I could eat some.

Q. Trying to put some of that 15 pounds back on you.

A. Trying to get me go to lay down ______ and sick call. I toughed it out and eat _________. When it docked in Fort _______, I believe it was, still is, they give us a pass as we got off the ship. You get in the chow line, you eat anything you want, as much as you want with this pass. First thing I got was milk. That's what I missed most of all, I never had a good glass of milk all the time I was overseas. Old powder milk most of the time when we got milk. That was a meal to remember. When we got -- when we get -- I told you of the ______ up on the 38th parallel and the heaviest team had won rations. Ten in one ration means one box will feed ten men. So the meat was in gallon cans or what I saw was. What we got and the only part we got was ham and sweet potatoes. It was mashed sweet potatoes with chunks of ham, which is good. But by the time those ten in one rations got to us -- the other outfits had robbed everything good out of them. And the only thing left was ham and sweet potatoes. I ate that for so many days that I couldn't hardly stand the smell of them when I was in the mess hall. So we bought up all the eggs and chickens we could buy out of that village there close to us. They got to where they wouldn't sell us any more chickens, we were killing all their chickens, ________. Ham and sweet potatoes. The time I left over there, a year, Korea, they were beginning to get some refrigeration units. And we were getting land meats from Australia, coming from Australia. You sit there and break a case of eggs, break one in the bowl. If it was good, you put it here. If it wasn't, you put it there. You get about half a case out of a case of good eggs, rest of them wasn't good. The meat wasn't much better.