Interview with James Michael Geiger on November 17, 2001

GEIGER:

My name is Erin Geiger and I will be interviewing my father, James Michael Geiger at my apartment in Fredricksburg, Virginia on November 17th, 2001. Mr. Geiger was in the Navy between 1974 and 1997 during which time as the captain he did defense logistical planning during the Gulf War.

Erin Geiger:

Question: Mr. Geiger, can you tell me why you joined up?

James Geiger:

Answer: Why I joined the Navy?

Erin Geiger:

Q: Yes.

James Reasman:

A: Because at that point in time it seemed like it was an interesting thing to do, would give me the opportunity to see things in the world, give me an opportunity to have very responsible positions early on in my career and it also afforded me the opportunity to, potentially to go to a better school because it was a scholarship involved when I went. I joined ROTC and as a result, the Navy paid for my college education. I might not have been able to have the same college education without that opportunity.

Erin Geiger:

Q: Is there any particular reason you chose the Navy over the other branches?

James Reasman:

A: I thought I had a better opportunity to see things with the Navy. The Army did not particularly appeal to me just because it was mostly on-the- ground stuff. The Air Force, I was tall as an individual and as a result, probably would not be able to be a pilot but with the Navy I would have the opportunity to -- just to sail war ships -- war ships and I always liked the water so that was kind of why I went that way.

Erin Geiger:

Q: Can you tell me about some of your first days in service?

James Reasman:

A: They were interesting, yes, I remember very clearly. First, when I first reported on board the ship I had gone to a school upon graduation from college and went to several months of training in Newport, Rhode Island to use some shipboard tactics and that type of thing, kind of a -- a bootcamp type concentration of academics and strategy and whatever to get ready to go to ship. And then I remember very clearly my first day going to the ship, I reported on board, walked on and was brought up to the individual I was going to relieve, he was going to move on to another job. He said, welcome aboard, come on up, let's go see the troops, and was then introduced to my division of roughly a dozen and a half sailers that all the sudden reported to me.

Erin Geiger:

Q: How long were you in active duty for?

James Reasman:

A: Active duty was from the middle of 1974 up to the middle of 1980, so about six years, just a little over six years.

Erin Geiger:

Q: And during this time, what was one of your most memorable experiences?

James Reasman:

A: Most memorable, that's interesting. It all depends. I -- a lot was memorable as far as seeing things around the world in places like Greece and Turkey and Panama, going across the Panama Canal, going to Cuba, things like that. Visiting places was very memorable. As far as Navy life was concerned, a lot of memorable things there as well as far as being responsible for shipboard bombardment exercises, being responsible for the -- the ship under way, being the officer of the deck, being the navigator to determine where the ship was, controlling the ship and operating the ship and protecting a -- protecting other ships, aircraft carriers and whatever else in storms off -- off the coast. There were a lot of very memorable things.

Erin Geiger:

Q: So what prompted you to retire from the Navy?

James Reasman:

A: Oh, I didn't actually retire from the Navy. I left active duty. Okay. And continued on in the reserves for another 15 years. I -- I left active duty primarily for one reason and that was that I had -- I was told that I should go ashore and -- and start a family, settle down, get a nice shore tour, which I did, I went to Newport, Rhode Island and taught foreign national students for several years, and then I wanted to go on to get my graduate degree. I had gotten one grad degree, I wanted to get a second graduate degree in engineering and I was told by the Navy folks that I was behind the curve, that I should have gone straight back out to sea instead of going to shore duty, and I felt that that was not -- they weren't playing the game fair so I said, fine, I'm just leaving. And I left active duty at that time but then continued on. I enjoyed the Navy greatly, I just didn't enjoy the way the process worked, so I stayed with the reserves for another 15 years or so after that.

Erin Geiger:

Q: When you went into the reserves, what rank were you at that time?

James Reasman:

A: I went into the reserves as a lieutenant which would be an O-3, if you would, third level of officer. There was ensign and then lieutenant JG and then lieutenant. I went into the reserves as a lieutenant.

Erin Geiger:

Q: And how quickly did you rise through the ranks to get to captain or the O-6 level?

James Reasman:

A: Not extraordinarily quickly. It was -- it was -- it was quick enough. It was unusual, still is unusual to make O-6 in the Naval reserves. I -- I guess I was selected for O-6 at about 20 years, 19 years in service including reserve time, which was a fairly good pay.

Erin Geiger:

Q: So do you think that this rank is what helped you to attain the position you did during the Gulf War?

James Reasman:

A: No, they were not related. The rank was -- happened in and of itself depending on what jobs you had and what you did and how you performed it and how your performance evaluations were filled out. I ended up in the unit I was in through a selection process. You would -- you would apply for certain jobs and folks would try and match you up, a billetin (ph.) external board would take a look at your qualifications and put you where they thought you would be best to serve the country, and that's why I ended up there but it had nothing to do with rank.

Erin Geiger:

Q: Okay. Well, speaking of the Gulf War, do you remember where you were when you learned everything that was going on oversees?

James Reasman:

A: We lived here in Virginia at that point in time and it just was an unfolding situation. I was in the reserve unit with the Navy logistics group and so learned of multi events through the natural course of reading things, news, whatever else.

Erin Geiger:

Q: Do you think that your experiences in the military affected how you viewed the war?

James Reasman:

A: I would think that just being in the military for that length of time probably has an impact on your perception of what should be done during a military evolution or need to attack something, so I tend to think that most of your military officers as a group are probably more conservative or right wing, if you would, than they would be left wing or liberal, just -- just natural selection over time.

Erin Geiger:

Q: Can you tell me a bit about your role as a defense logistics planner?

James Reasman:

A: During the Gulf War what we -- what we did was the N-4 unit, an N-4 is, it's -- it's different N codes, if you would, which are Navy codes for operations inside the Pentagon, so we were in the N-4 unit. N-4 was logistics. N-4 had several sub branches, if you would, N-41 being ammunitions, N-46 being the SEA BEES, that type of thing. But we also manned up the LPEC, which is the Logistics Planning & Execution Center for the Navy, and that is where all of the logistical data for Naval operations during the pursuit of war or even at peace time, where all that information was gathered and then put into a format which would then be used for a daily brief to the Secretary of the Navy and others, The status of not so much operations but the logistics of the operations so, for example, how many Tomahawks have been fired, how many were left, what platforms were they on, what were the conditions of the ships that were out there, who needs to be refueled, who needed to get more replenishment, stores, that type of thing, We would be the central point of contact in the LPEC to gather all the information from the different N codes that were out there and then assemble that into information that could be used by decision makers, senior people in the Pentagon.

Erin Geiger:

Q: Was any of this information classified as confidential or was it --

James Reasman:

A: It was classified well above confidential. Most of it would have been secret or top secret information.

Erin Geiger:

Q: And since this -- since that time, has it come out to public record or is it still considered confidential?

James Reasman:

A: I don't know. I wouldn't think it is -- would be classified any more but if you think about it for a second, the number of Tomahawks fired, the number of Tomahawks remain on a given war ship, at that point in time when the ship was in harm's way, you would not want to release that information. Historically at this point it probably is no longer classified but I wouldn't -- I wouldn't know that myself.

Erin Geiger:

Q: How long were you with this particular group, the N-4 group?

James Reasman:

A: Well, the N-4 group, I think I was with them about six or seven years. I ended up retiring from N-4, retiring from the Navy. I left there, I was the executive officer for the unit that had about 80 or so officers and maybe 20 or so enlisted people in the unit.

Erin Geiger:

Q: So this puts you joining this group a few years beforehand?

James Reasman:

A: It would have been, say, 1991 or so was -- 1991 would have been when I joined them, maybe '89.

Erin Geiger:

Q: And do you keep any lasting friendships from this group?

James Reasman:

A: I -- I don't keep in touch on a regular basis with people. I have a number of people that I was friends with during that unit that I bump into from time to time just in the area, but do not maintain relationships with anyone.

Erin Geiger:

Q: Since you did serve at home in the Pentagon, did you ever wish that you could be overseas in combat situations?

James Reasman:

A: I think it would have been a challenge, it would have probably been something I wanted to do earlier on in my career, okay? But at that point in time when the Gulf War came down, you know, I was -- I was in my mid forties and not exactly what you would call a combat soldier or someone that would, you know, be in that type of arena. If I were still in the active Navy, I probably would have been a commanding in one of the war ships which would have been an interesting -- interesting challenge, but even then, most of the war ships were commanded by the rank of commander or an O-5, so most likely I would have been involved in battle planning which is similar to what I was doing in the Pentagon anyway.

Erin Geiger:

Q: So what did you go on to do as a career after the war was over?

James Reasman:

A: After I retired?

Erin Geiger:

Q: Yes.

James Reasman:

A: From the Navy?

Erin Geiger:

Q: Yes.

James Reasman:

A: Well, I continued in the civilian career that I had all along. When I -- when I left the active duty Navy in 1980, I joined a consulting and accounting firm which was -- it's now known as KPMG Consulting and I was with them for the duration of my reserve career and I am still with them today.

Erin Geiger:

Q: And how did your service and experiences affect the rest of your life?

James Reasman:

A: I think they have been very beneficial because in my civilian career, what I do right now is I'm responsible for DOD and intelligence community consulting practice at KPGM Consulting, and as a result, I deal on a regular basis with senior military, both civilian and uniformed officers, and having had first-hand experience and knowledge with military operations and having actually worn the uniform has been very helpful in maintaining my association and being able to understand when military people talk about different types of operations and what their needs are. Having been there and seen it first hand, it's very helpful for understanding the requirements and needs of my clients.

Erin Geiger:

Q: Since this is what you're involved in in your civilian life, during the Gulf War did your civilian career at KPMG and your position in the Navy ever overlap?

James Reasman:

A: No, I wouldn't say so, because I was never actually recalled full-time to active duty. As a reservist I did my two weeks a year in the Pentagon in the LPEC doing logistical planning during the Gulf War, and on weekends and other times I would spend time in the Pentagon, but there was never really an overlap or a conflict with -- with my civilian career except that as issues were raised during the Gulf War from my clients, my civilian clients, I would have a better understanding because I had -- I had worked in the Pentagon.

Erin Geiger:

Q: And can you tell me, how did you feel about the Gulf War?

James Reasman:

A: You mean feel as far as being in favor of it or against it --

Erin Geiger:

Q: Uh-huh.

James Reasman:

A: -- or should have done bigger or faster or whatever else? I was in favor of us -- of us doing what we did. If I had my way, we probably would have moved in quicker rather than having the huge build-up we did and probably would have gone a little further than we actually did, but I am very mindful that it's easy to say that sitting here and not knowing all the information that those people knew.

Erin Geiger:

Q: Did you ever feel any pressure or stress during your time serving during the Gulf War?

James Reasman:

A: No, not -- I wouldn't -- I wouldn't say I did. I would expect that those who were actually over there, you know, in harm's way, potentially be attacked or whatever else, you know, there was a lot of threat of chemical warfare and whatever. There was probably a fair amount of pressure there, but in the Pentagon it was -- there was no pressure, no -- no concern of any -- any kind of accident or fatality.

Erin Geiger:

Q: While asking you for your biographical data earlier this evening you told me that you had been awarded multiple medals. Can you tell me a bit about those?

James Reasman:

A: There were -- well, none of those were involved for, if you would, any kind of a combat role beyond national defense service during time of war. The ribbons and medals that I were awarded were primarily achievement medals for sustained periods of performance, doing things right on the job, that type of thing. You know, kind of like merit awards type of thing that you would have out in civilian career, did not have to do with combat situations. There were some there were associated with particular skill levels, qualifications, service warfare qualifications, that type of thing.

Erin Geiger:

Q: And do you recall the day that your service ended? First, when you went from active duty into the reserves and when you left the reserves?

James Reasman:

A: Well, I remember when I went up from active duty to the reserves, I went from active duty, I left, I was up at NETC, Naval Education Training Center in Newport, Rhode Island, and I left active duty there and started work with what has become now again KPMG Consulting. I spent about a year or so, a little over a year, actually, with no affiliation with reserves, I just wanted to go ahead and get my civilian career underway. And I changed houses, had a child, that type of thing so didn't immediately go back into the reserves but about a year and a half later I did, and then continued on for about 15 more years and then retired out of -- out of the Pentagon when, you know -- this was a situation where you had to apply again for particular billets, and the number of billets being jobs that were available for O-6's, captains in the reserves were very, very limited, so I did the tail end, the very tail end of my career as a volunteer non-paid by the reserves but it was kind of a pay-back for 19 years of pay, so had no -- no bad feelings about that at all. The career ended very well. My unit was very appreciative and it was -- it was a good point in my career.

Erin Geiger:

Q: Well, is there anything else you would like to add to our interview?

James Reasman:

A: I would say that -- that I am -- I am very pleased with my association with the United States Navy, the military in general, very proud of what our military does and I understand a continuing need for a military, and I'm very supportive of those who are responsible for the conduct of -- of evolutions including war and conflict suppression to insure that we keep our American freedoms.

Erin Geiger:

Q: Well, thank you very much for granting me this interview.

James Reasman:

A: You're welcome.